Clutch Experts In Here, Please

[Kazz5]

When I purchased my 2nd Toyota Celica '00 GT-S it had just over 120K on the odo and a grind going into 2nd and 3rd. I lived with that for a long time. I was using it to commute to Bloomington at the time so shifting wa at a minimum anyway and it was more noise than true hassle. When it had to have major brake work done I ordered a C60 trans w/LSD from MWR, a South Bend (?) clutch, and a Fidanza flywheel. That's the stock replacement 6-speed transmission that MWR had put a TRD LSD in.

Long story short, the dealership really didn't seem to be on top of things and their pricing was nuts. After that and some experience with the wife's car, we don't intend to go back. When I drove away everything seemed fine. However, the first time I tried a high-rpm 'drop' from a dead stop, the clutch pedal stayed high and burnt up clutch.

The clutch pedal effort is really light and I can repeat the above 'slow pedal drop' if I'm at a stop or if I'm, say, doing 30-ish, press in the clutch, give it gas to get the rpms high and 'drop' into 2nd trying to spin tires, etc.

I've bled and bled and bled the hydraulics. Day-to-day driving's fine. I'm not sure, but when pressing in the clutch while driving, the clutch may be disengaging higher in the travel than where it engages in the next gear.

There's a shot at describing it all. I took it into the other Toyota dealership - one I actually like - to get some other things done and have them look at that. I'm sure it won't be pretty trying to describe and convince them that the parts should be good in order to keep them from telling me I need a new clutch or some-such.

Ideas here?

Thanks!

[Kazz5]

I forgot the mention that I've adjusted the pedal all throughout the range trying to alleviate the problem with no success, also.

Thanks.

[Dan Boles]

Is there an inspection hole to see if the fiber material or what ever is still on the disk as it should be?

I missed a shift with a 300zx I have a while back, going from 6000+ in third and slapping second..

It wadded a bunch of that friction material up between the pressureplate and the clutch disk.. Wouldnt engage or disengage right.

Same deal with a brand new clutch disk on the Vr4 when I had it, was driving along and decided to try a good launch... broken that disk up into pieces, casuing it to act real flakey on engagement until it was replaced..

Id bet the clutch disk is fubar man.

should be a hole in the trans/bellhousing to sneak a peak.

[Kazz5]

Thanks. Will look into it.

[RacerX11]

Does this car have a flow restrictor in the clutch line? Some GM cars do this to prevent just what you are describing, a high-rpm clutch dump to spin the tires. If you release the clutch normally, all is well. But if you attempt a more aggressive application of the clutch, the orifice in the line between the master and slave will slow down the clutch engagement, resulting in slipping clutch.

The solution is to drill out the line to allow full-speed clutch engagement. If it isn't an intentional design, there could be debris in the line causing similar behavior.

[Dan Boles]

Mitsubishi evos has that too.

[Kazz5]

Does this car have a flow restrictor in the clutch line? Some GM cars do this to prevent just what you are describing, a high-rpm clutch dump to spin the tires. If you release the clutch normally, all is well. But if you attempt a more aggressive application of the clutch, the orifice in the line between the master and slave will slow down the clutch engagement, resulting in slipping clutch.

The solution is to drill out the line to allow full-speed clutch engagement. If it isn't an intentional design, there could be debris in the line causing similar behavior.

I'm familiar with that restrictor from the Evo. However, even in the Evo it doesn't prevent a hard shift. Mine's in there now and you've seen my autocross starts. *Laugh*

ANYWAY, this was a different trans that was put in. I've had two others before (each with a different car) and not had anything like this. The previous trans/clutch combo on this car was fine.

This was a new-to-me C60 trans with TRD LSD, new lightweight flywheel, and aftermarket clutch.

I keep thinking it's in the slave cylinder or other portion of the hydraulics. If Toyota throws up their hands and wants to drop the trans I may balk and tell them no for now. I was just hoping someone had a good idea what this might be and had run into it prior.

Thanks!

[turbohcar]

No dice on the wadded up clutch disk? Sounded like a logical explanation to me.

[ryans88gt]

Sounds like a contaminated clutch disk (oil, hydraulic, or trans fluid on the disk). When the PP diaphram gets hot from a slipping disk it will create all the hard shifting issues and the pedal will sometimes stay on the floor or be slow to come back up.

[Kazz5]

The car's currently at Toyota so I can't inspect it right now.

And shifting day-to-day is fine. Again, the pedal feels light, but I've driven it fine that way for over a year now.

[2ks4 : Jason]

When I purchased my 2nd Toyota Celica '00 GT-S it had just over 120K on the odo and a grind going into 2nd and 3rd. I lived with that for a long time. I was using it to commute to Bloomington at the time so shifting wa at a minimum anyway and it was more noise than true hassle. When it had to have major brake work done I ordered a C60 trans w/LSD from MWR, a South Bend (?) clutch, and a Fidanza flywheel. That's the stock replacement 6-speed transmission that MWR had put a TRD LSD in.

Long story short, the dealership really didn't seem to be on top of things and their pricing was nuts. After that and some experience with the wife's car, we don't intend to go back. When I drove away everything seemed fine. However, the first time I tried a high-rpm 'drop' from a dead stop, the clutch pedal stayed high and burnt up clutch.

The clutch pedal effort is really light and I can repeat the above 'slow pedal drop' if I'm at a stop or if I'm, say, doing 30-ish, press in the clutch, give it gas to get the rpms high and 'drop' into 2nd trying to spin tires, etc.

I've bled and bled and bled the hydraulics. Day-to-day driving's fine. I'm not sure, but when pressing in the clutch while driving, the clutch may be disengaging higher in the travel than where it engages in the next gear.

There's a shot at describing it all. I took it into the other Toyota dealership - one I actually like - to get some other things done and have them look at that. I'm sure it won't be pretty trying to describe and convince them that the parts should be good in order to keep them from telling me I need a new clutch or some-such.

Ideas here?

Thanks!

slave cylinder

[Kazz5]

slave cylinder

That's my thought and, obviously, the hope is that it's in the hydraulics somewhere!

[Kazz5]

System re-bled with no improvement. Dealership wants to replace both the master and slave cylinders (about $200 in parts) with 5 (!) hours of labor.

I may be able to live with this problem... *Laugh*

Oh, well, at least she has summer rubber and wheels on now. Woot!

[xspsi4]

Sounds like a collapsed rubber hydraulic line which would be in the line from the master to the slave and I have seen this happen before so Check there first as it should be the cheapest and most easy to get at as opposed to changing master cyl etc.

[badbu68]

Since nobody else said anything, sounds like the 2nd to 3rd grind is a worn shift fork.

[xspsi4]

Well his problem with the clutch draging is a hydro problem but the grinding is most likely a worn syncro hub and slider but shift fork is steel in that trans so it is most likely still fine as the brass syncro is the first item to wear in a trans as it is made of the softest metal and has to slow down the gearset every time you shift that gear so think of a syncro as a brake pad for the internal gear set cluster and after time it will for sure wear out and if left unchecked after it first starts to grind it will wear away the engagement teeth on the slider/hub for that gear.

[Kazz5]

No grinding in this new trans (and clutch) that was put in. That's when the odd clutch engagement started. Should be resolved in the next day or two if it's the slave or related.

I hope!

[xspsi4]

What brand of clutch pressure plate? Is it oem Toyota or South bend ?

[Kazz5]

SB.

[xspsi4]

Could be a weak pressure plate from the factory.

[Kazz5]

Slave cylinder didn't do it. I'm thinkin' pressure plate/clutch myself, now. And if the trans is going to drop to look at it I may put another new clutch in anyway...

Lovely.