Noob Event Recommendations

[Kazz5]

So you road race nerds, which events to you most highly recommend for the noobest in '09? I'd like to hit at least three this year!

Thanks.

[Hornswoggler]

2009 Putnam Park w/ NASA! May 16-17 (http://www.cicenet.net/showthread.php?t=5036)

In looking for a group to run with, I always recommend an HPDE that puts an instructor in your car every session (preferrably the same instructor all day), and has a classroom component. This keeps you safe and helps you learn the most. Think of the in-car instructor as your weekend tour guide, helping you get the most from the weekend. Plus its nice having somebody to provide feedback and answer questions, etc.

Three groups in the area that stand out:
NASA Midwest (http://www.nasamidwest.com/)
BMWCCA (pick any chapter)
Audi Club Chicago Chapter (http://www.audichicago.org/)

All three groups are open to other cars and all three require an annual club membership (~$45/year). NASA has the most diversity (as its not marquee-based) and offers the most options for "graduating" into competition. I like them all but over the years have found NASA to be my home. Plus its fun watching w2w races inbetween sessions.

Once you have a few events under your belt, open lapping days are fine. These usually have some (or minimal) instruction if requested.

[Kazz5]

[url=http://www.cicenet.net/showthread.php?t=5036]In looking for a group to run with, I always recommend an HPDE that puts an instructor in your car every session (preferrably the same instructor all day), and has a classroom component. This keeps you safe and helps you learn the most. Think of the in-car instructor as your weekend tour guide, helping you get the most from the weekend. Plus its nice having somebody to provide feedback and answer questions, etc.

Precisely what I'm looking for and why I asked. Thanks.

[Feffman]

Kazz:

Just a quick note on MVP Track Time’s 2009 Midwest track days. We have the Midwestern Swing listed below:

April 18-19: Putnam Park ”Tax Freedom Track Weekend”

June 1: Autobahn Country Club (FULL 3.56 mile track)

August 3: Autobahn Country Club II (FULL 3.56 mile track)

September 5-6: Blackhawk Farms ”No Hurricane Rain Track Weekend”

October 17-18: Mid Ohio

Of course you can run at any of our track events. For more details, registration (both on-line and mail-in registration) and the balance of the 2009 schedule (VIR, Summit Point, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta), visit us at www.MVPTrackTime.com.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at (314) 249-3770 or Feffman@MVPTrackTime.com. Happy Motoring and I hope to see you at the track!

Feff

[Hornswoggler]

Kazz, is this going to be your year?

I did run an auto-x last season. ;)

[Four6mafia]

Mustangs allowed? :)

[Kazz5]

Kazz, is this going to be your year?

I did run an auto-x last season. ;)

That's definitely the hope. I'd like to make it a plan. I should know more by the end of the month.

Recommendations? :D

[Hornswoggler]

Recommendations? :D

Hit me up when you are ready to pull the trigger... we'll find you a good one. :)

[Hornswoggler]

Mustangs allowed? :)

Absolutely!

[heavy85]

Midwest Council is also out there. This Sat is a track school at Blackhawk. I haven't checked but last year it cost about a buck fifty. www.mcscc.org. I run the high speed autox events. You get 3 four lap practices and usually 5 or 6 timed runs. This is an autox on a full racetrack - start at the end of pitroad and get one timed lap at a time. No cones but 4 wheels off gets you a dnf. Cost is usually $100-150 depending on the track and they have free food and beers Saturday after the event then w-w on Sunday. I like running with them. NASA is good as well but more expensive and you have to get your license and transponder before you can do anything competitive.

Cameron

[Dan Boles]

sounds fun, kinda an inbetween option

[Kazz5]

Midwest Council is also out there. This Sat is a track school at Blackhawk. I haven't checked but last year it cost about a buck fifty. www.mcscc.org. I run the high speed autox events. You get 3 four lap practices and usually 5 or 6 timed runs. This is an autox on a full racetrack - start at the end of pitroad and get one timed lap at a time. No cones but 4 wheels off gets you a dnf. Cost is usually $100-150 depending on the track and they have free food and beers Saturday after the event then w-w on Sunday. I like running with them. NASA is good as well but more expensive and you have to get your license and transponder before you can do anything competitive.

Cameron

So the course IS the course? No alterations? Yep, that's some high-speed autocross... !

[Hornswoggler]

I think Dan (username "Dan") is a Midwestern Counsil instructor. He might be able to answer questions if you have them.

My issue with MW counsil HPDE/TT/Solo events is the shortage of seat time. If you get about ~20 laps, that should be around 30 minutes of seat time on course, which is 1/3 what you get with most groups. If you are going to compete, and fit well into their classes (probably like being thrown into SM for auto-x...), I can see the appeal. But for a first event, if you are looking to learn and build a solid foundation, I recommend finding a more educational event than a competitive one.

Look for classroom time, lots of seat time, and an in-car instructor all day. It took one heck of a foundation on which to build the Sears tower, start building yours!

[NewScooby]

Putnam May 15-16th with NASA is a great event.

If any CICE members are going to be there and want to meet up for dinner and drinks Saturday night let me know. Frickled pickles and dollar drafts FTW!!! :D

[dnace]

Putnam May 15-16th with NASA is a great event.

If any CICE members are going to be there and want to meet up for dinner and drinks Saturday night let me know. Frickled pickles and dollar drafts FTW!!! :D

I wish I could be ready for this event :(

[heavy85]

Putnam May 15-16th with NASA is a great event.

If any CICE members are going to be there and want to meet up for dinner and drinks Saturday night let me know. Frickled pickles and dollar drafts FTW!!! :D

I'm a maybe. Just got my TT license so now need a transponder. The lack of camping at the track sux and is a pain but still would be worth it. Last year and this I'm trying to get to as many different tracks as possible and I haven't been to Putnam yet so might likely will be there.

Cameron

[NewScooby]

I'll look you up if I see your car out there, and I end up going.

I just checked the schedule for that weekend and saw that HPDE 3/4/and TT will be together every session on Sunday so that can finish the day early and run an enduro race. I'm not so thrilled about that as Putnam is always crowded and sold out during NASA events. This will really pack that run group on Sunday. I'm comfortable with open passing, but open passing on a crowded track with TT guys trying to get a fast lap in is likely gonna suck for me in my street tire car with 240hp. Those TT guys in the faster classes are turning 1.17's or less and I am likely in the 1.28-1.30 range.

I will be camping with some buddy's at Gingerman later in the year with NASA. If you haven't been there I suggest you give it a try. Its similar to Putnam, just better imo.

What tracks have you been to? Out of Gingerman, Grattan, Road America, Putnam, and Autobahn..... Gingerman is my favorite. I need to make it to BHF someday.

I'm a maybe. Just got my TT license so now need a transponder. The lack of camping at the track sux and is a pain but still would be worth it. Last year and this I'm trying to get to as many different tracks as possible and I haven't been to Putnam yet so might likely will be there.

Cameron

[Hornswoggler]

I just checked the schedule for that weekend and saw that HPDE 3/4/and TT will be together every session on Sunday so that can finish the day early and run an enduro race.

wow, that would be unfortunate for everybody. Just combining HPDE4 and TT was a challenge at Putnam in the past, I can't imagine adding another well-attended run group. Even if attendance is way down from pre-09 levels, there is still a big speed differential between groups. :ranting:

[dnace]

wow, that would be unfortunate for everybody. Just combining HPDE4 and TT was a challenge at Putnam in the past, I can't imagine adding another well-attended run group. Even if attendance is way down from pre-09 levels, there is still a big speed differential between groups. :ranting:

yeah that is my thought. I would consider going up to hpde 3 at putnam but not if it was running with 4 and TT you would just be avoiding cars the whole time.

[jstbrd]

yeah that is my thought. I would consider going up to hpde 3 at putnam but not if it was running with 4 and TT you would just be avoiding cars the whole time.

You could both just go to BlackHawk on Monday w/me...

[NewScooby]

You could both just go to BlackHawk on Monday w/me...

Monday, May 17th? or this next Monday. Whos runnig the event?

[jstbrd]

Monday May 17th....Lotus Corps

http://home.earthlink.net/~lotuscorps/trackday/

[NewScooby]

wow, that would be unfortunate for everybody. Just combining HPDE4 and TT was a challenge at Putnam in the past, I can't imagine adding another well-attended run group. Even if attendance is way down from pre-09 levels, there is still a big speed differential between groups. :ranting:

I sent an email to the TT director complaining about it. I attend 3 events a year and I think they are more concerned about keeping the w2w regulars (7+ events) happy, but we'll see what the response is. They can't make everyone happy, I will be trying out an MVP event this year I'm sure.

[dnace]

Monday May 17th....Lotus Corps

http://home.earthlink.net/~lotuscorps/trackday/

maybe if I had a car ready and setup

[Hornswoggler]

... and I think they are more concerned about keeping the w2w regulars (7+ events) happy,


I would be surprised as that doesn't align with what I have heard from Dave Royce in the past. He seemed big on treating all "drivers" with equal respect, no matter their experience or what run group they are in. He was not a fan of using the term "students", or even expecting members to have to graduate to the next run group or level of competition... he was happy with everybody finding their comfortable place, and he had enthusiasm for making HPDE drivers feel as welcome as the race groups.

With that said, I know the enduro series has been struggling these last few years, and Putnam is not the easiest track to work with when it comes to staying late (they chase you out quick after event is over!). Combining those two constraints is probably making them compromise for this event. That is just a guess.

[Kazz5]

What's the scoop on any Autobahn events? Closer to home's better to get started with for me, I'm thinkin'.

[Hornswoggler]

What's the scoop on any Autobahn events? Closer to home's better to get started with for me, I'm thinkin'.

We have a lot of great tracks to choose from, and they are all fun in their own ways.

If you are worried about having mechanical issues, yeah, closer would be better. Autobahn is closest, with Blackhawk a second. Safety and reliability are #1 and #2 for car prep.

For a first event at autobahn, you can start with just the south or north course rather than do the full right off the bat. Full course has 21 turns, which can be a handful to learn (but not impossible).

If you want a very safe track with few things to hit, Gingerman and Putnam are good choices.

If you want to learn on an easier course, Road America has plenty of straights so you can take deep breaths, check gauges, and listen to the instructor, etc.

[heavy85]

Those TT guys in the faster classes are turning 1.17's or less and I am likely in the 1.28-1.30 range.

I will be camping with some buddy's at Gingerman later in the year with NASA. If you haven't been there I suggest you give it a try. Its similar to Putnam, just better imo.

What tracks have you been to? Out of Gingerman, Grattan, Road America, Putnam, and Autobahn..... Gingerman is my favorite. I need to make it to BHF someday.

I'm running TTU so that may be me passing by :). 1:17 gives me a target to be 'fast'. I've run
BHF, ABS, ABN, Milwaukee Mile (glad to survive that one). Planning Putnam and Gingerman this year. May sign up for GRM Track Car Challenge at VIR but that's more of a longshot.

Cameron

[NewScooby]

If you want to learn on an easier course, Road America has plenty of straights so you can take deep breaths, check gauges, and listen to the instructor, etc.

Except "the kink" that turn makes my butt pucker just thinking about it. Over 100mph thru the kink on street tires is an eye opener!

I also learned alot about brake fade there as well. It is an easy track, but damn fast. Stock Z06's can hit 155 on the straights there. When they came by my Subaru that topped out at 127-130 they were moving!

[Hornswoggler]

Except "the kink" that turn makes my butt pucker just thinking about it. Over 100mph thru the kink on street tires is an eye opener!



That is moving pretty good!

I hit 1.28 lateral g's @ 98 mph in the kink, but I am still a chicken in that corner. I could find a few more mph, for sure.

[Z3papa]

We have a lot of great tracks to choose from, and they are all fun in their own ways.

If you are worried about having mechanical issues, yeah, closer would be better. Autobahn is closest, with Blackhawk a second. Safety and reliability are #1 and #2 for car prep.

For a first event at autobahn, you can start with just the south or north course rather than do the full right off the bat. Full course has 21 turns, which can be a handful to learn (but not impossible).

If you want a very safe track with few things to hit, Gingerman and Putnam are good choices.

If you want to learn on an easier course, Road America has plenty of straights so you can take deep breaths, check gauges, and listen to the instructor, etc.

Oddly enough, I thought it would be alot to take in and memorize the full Autobahn for the first event but after one run session, I not only had the track memorized, but the braking points, apex markers, etc. along with where exactly I was to be braking and rolling back onto the throttle. My only bad memory was how bad I drove that first session. Probably progressed quickly due to the instructor reminding me everytime I'd regress to trail braking. Ironically, many of the instructions still echo to me when I'm running autocross events now. I definitely need to get out again this year.

[Hornswoggler]

lol Clark, sorry to haunt you. :D

You came into the event with a very solid foundation and I'm sure plenty of practice learning courses. I'm sure that helped a ton! You were flying in the afternoon, for sure. Picked it up real quick.

dnace had it figured out really well too after just a couple sessions. depends a lot on the person and their background.

[dnace]

lol Clark, sorry to haunt you. :D

You came into the event with a very solid foundation and I'm sure plenty of practice learning courses. I'm sure that helped a ton! You were flying in the afternoon, for sure. Picked it up real quick.

dnace had it figured out really well too after just a couple sessions. depends a lot on the person and their background.

I woulda been an ACE by the end of the day...woulda....silly "Hornswoggler driving school"

[Kazz5]

Right now my biggest concern (after car soundness and safety) is handling at speed. I don't care how many turns, although the fewer the better, I'm thinking.

But, I'm sure, after a first time out getting OUT of 2nd gear, that I'll come up with preferences, goals, and things to work on.

[Hornswoggler]

I woulda been an ACE by the end of the day...woulda....silly "Hornswoggler driving school"


The stook had it coming. Would have rather it been Proudfoots, but yours was the closest one available. ;)

Next time you go, it will feel as natural as riding a bike. I don't think you have driven the same course twice yet... it can be fun to pick up where you left off.

[dnace]

The stook had it coming. Would have rather it been Proudfoots, but yours was the closest one available. ;)

Next time you go, it will feel as natural as riding a bike. I don't think you have driven the same course twice yet... it can be fun to pick up where you left off.

haha yeah you are right. been trying to try lots of course. I know Adam (VT) n here wants to go this year so I may try and do a Putnam event mid to late year. and of course the members weekend again.

[amitchVT]

Yes, I definitely want to check out an HPDE this year so just let me know which one we should go to Nolan.

[Kazz5]

After a bit more thought, any track with good instruction and seat time would be my ideal. I want instructed seat time, classroom, more instructed seat time, and a shot at it myself before I leave. One day where I can drive there and back would be preferred. Hotel would be for overnights for multi-day events ideally.

And one day I WILL drive on Road America.

I need to make a short list of those 'WILL drive on' tracks, methinks. :D

[NewScooby]

Yes, I definitely want to check out an HPDE this year so just let me know which one we should go to Nolan.

This is Brian (the guy with the zip ties) You guys should shoot for Gingerman Aug 21-22 with NASA. I'll be there with a few buddies camping and your welcome to join us.

The track kicks ass and is being expanded right now. I'll be working on David to get him there:D

[amitchVT]

Awesome, I'm in! Thanks so much for the zip ties btw, they definitely helped. David was saying that Gingerman has less run off, is that going to be a problem for me? I'd rather not have my car end up like Nolan's S2k. I talked to Powdercoating Unlimited and unfortunately they just shot a batch of black thermal coat the day I called them so I will have to wait a week or two, but I definitely plan on coating my heat shield and DP.

[Hornswoggler]

Kazz, Autobahn would be the PERFECT day trip for you then. I may be able to get you in on a LAPS inc. day once you get closer. LAPS is a very exclusive/private club, but you get TONS of track time and instructor for the day. They usually do not sell single-day events, but sometimes I can find somebody an open spot.

David was saying that Gingerman has less run off, is that going to be a problem for me?

Gingerman has like, one corner that you could possibly hit anything... not unlike Putnam. Those are the two safest tracks in the area.

He should drive gateway, then Gingerman, and see his assessment then. :)

I'd rather not have my car end up like Nolan's S2k.

I can help you if you ever need a co-driver...

[NewScooby]

That is moving pretty good!

I hit 1.28 lateral g's @ 98 mph in the kink, but I am still a chicken in that corner. I could find a few more mph, for sure.


It was my first HPDE with an aggressive instructor (that I do not believe instructs anymore) that was looking to get quick lap times out of me right from the start. Looking back on it after 3 years on road courses, i should have kicked him out after the first session. I was nervous as hell and trying to do everything he wanted/and impress him.
i got to admit though, we were damn fast for Group 1/2. It was a blast that weekend with several GT3's, an F430, and a couple C6 Z06's in my group that were awesome to listen to on those long straights.

We were hitting the kink just perfect so the car would track out nice....several times onto edge of the grass. And I was hitting my highest speeds coming into Canada corner. That was the only corner where I almost beached it with my ABS kicking in a few times in the bumpy braking zone.

After I get stiffly sprung coilovers on my S2K, I am looking forward to going back to RA. Supercharged would also be nice for RA.

[NewScooby]

Awesome, I'm in! Thanks so much for the zip ties btw, they definitely helped. David was saying that Gingerman has less run off, is that going to be a problem for me? I'd rather not have my car end up like Nolan's S2k. I talked to Powdercoating Unlimited and unfortunately they just shot a batch of black thermal coat the day I called them so I will have to wait a week or two, but I definitely plan on coating my heat shield and DP.

I felt more confortable at Gingerman than Putnam. The two are definately the most run off friendly tracks that I have been to. BTW, I didn't go off track until my 3rd event. And actually I didn't go off track I spun a 180 right in the middle. I have a friend that went off track for the first time after 6 years on track. Which leads to what I would like to have know before my first time on track.
First, don't try to impress anyone, make sure you stay in your comfort zone. like autocross, smoothness creates speed, even though I have to admit that I like to toss around AWD cars.
Don't be in a hurry to loose instruction either. I still do lead/follows with instructors with similar cars and I've asked instructors (many drive thier own cars in the advanced groups) to jump in with me for a few laps and critique how I'm doing. Almost all are happy to share their knowledge, and its amazing to me how minor changes can clean up your line and find you some missing speed.

Along with the thermal coating, I ran redline fluids in my trans and rear diff, flushed my brake fluid 2x per year, ran high temp brake pads, got a good alignment, and a big TMIC and my car was fine for multiple track weekends with no issues. I usually consumed around 1/2 qt of oil per weekend as well.

Oh and plan on being the guy that drives everyone to dinner since noone else seems to drive cars with as much room :D

[NewScooby]

i can help you if you ever need a co-driver...

lol

[Hornswoggler]

Don't be in a hurry to loose instruction either.

Great point!

Even at my first event, I was in a hurry to either advance run groups or get signed off solo.. but as I ran with new clubs/regions, I would start out assigned in the intermediate groups for a long time but was able to learn a lot. If nothing else, I had a better sense for the good instructors from those who were less good. Some were too conservative for my pace, and others maybe too aggressive... but I did enjoy the aggressive ones (maybe moreso after the session than during, lol).

[dnace]

David was saying that Gingerman has less run off, is that going to be a problem for me?.
That would be blackhawk I was talking about. I have never run gingerman...yet :)

[NewScooby]

Schedule for the NASA event at Putnam is out on thier website. http://www.nasamidwest.com/docs/2010/Putnam_May_Schedule.pdf

I went ahead and signed up for Sat/Sun

[amitchVT]

I def have no problems with keeping the instructors for as long as possible because I know that is the best way to get faster. I still put David in my car at autocrosses and usually get my fastest times on those runs.

Where do you guys normally stay on the 2 day events?

[Hornswoggler]

Where do you guys normally stay on the 2 day events?

A few of the places right next to Putnam (Cloverdale, IN) are real dives, except maybe the Holiday Inn.

If you want to stay somewhere nicer, and have better choice of restaurants, etc. check out Plainfield, IN. Its about 20 miles from the track (compared to Cloverdale being ~5), but that extra 15 minutes is worth it IMO. The local hotels also fill up fast as most people book their putnam trip way in advance, so the sooner you get planning, the better chance of getting what you want.

Edit: I cannot stress enough how quickly the Putnam events fill up. Plan on it being SOLD OUT... better get cracking if you want to be a part of this event. It will happen again in October incase you miss the May one.

[NewScooby]

If anyone else is going to the NASA weekend at Putnam in May, I have a room with an unmanned queen sized bed (pull out in the couch) in Plainfield.

$65 reserves it for you Friday and Saturday night. PM if interested

$10 extra per night if you snore
$25 extra per night if you stink

[dnace]

take it adam. it is a great venue!

[NewScooby]

BUMP...........Putnam FTW


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff201/NewScooby/BrianHondaS2000PutnamPark10-09.jpg

[amitchVT]

I already have plans for May 15/16, otherwise I would definitely go to Putnam with you guys! I know we are doing the HPDE in August at Gingerman, but is there another one sooner in the summer than that one we can go to as well? Keep in mind that this will be my first track event in the venue selection.

[NewScooby]

If anyone else is going to the NASA weekend at Putnam in May, I have a room with an unmanned queen sized bed (pull out in the couch) in Plainfield.

$65 reserves it for you Friday and Saturday night. PM if interested

$10 extra per night if you snore
$25 extra per night if you stink

no longer available, found another roomate on S2Ki

[NewScooby]

I already have plans for May 15/16, otherwise I would definitely go to Putnam with you guys! I know we are doing the HPDE in August at Gingerman, but is there another one sooner in the summer than that one we can go to as well? Keep in mind that this will be my first track event in the venue selection.

I suggest anything on the NASA schedule. The event sponsored by Hoerr's should be good too. I know several W2W racers that are sponsored by Hoerr's that are instructors and I would assume they would be there. I will ask them when I see them at Putnam, if I could partner you up with one of them I think that would be a good first event for you as well.

[dnace]

I suggest anything on the NASA schedule. The event sponsored by Hoerr's should be good too. I know several W2W racers that are sponsored by Hoerr's that are instructors and I would assume they would be there. I will ask them when I see them at Putnam, if I could partner you up with one of them I think that would be a good first event for you as well.

I went in and talked to them today. I hope to make this event. For newbs it sounds like they will have a few instructors but nothing gigantic as far as orientation for those new. But the organizer did say they have the event for all those local that have always wanted to to a track event but never have.


Not too bad for $150

Note** Open top cars have to have a roll bar. :D

[Hornswoggler]

If anybody wants to make the Hoerr event their first one and needs an instructor, I'll ride along if I am free that day.

[dnace]

He mentioned they might might need innstructors if anyone is interested.

[amitchVT]

Awesome! Let's do it! How do we sign up for the Hoerr event?

[NewScooby]

Awesome! Let's do it! How do we sign up for the Hoerr event?

info in the first post http://www.cicenet.net/showthread.php?t=8610

[dnace]

Awesome! Let's do it! How do we sign up for the Hoerr event?

I have an entry form and tech form I can give you tonight