double radiator cooling system

[polish dude]

i'm designing my own cooling system for my gt4 and i need expert opinion. i need a specialist on cooling systems to take a look at my idea and tell me if it's even gonna work.
thanks.

[EvoIX_MR2006]

Shouldn't you be an expert on cooling systems if you are engineering your own cooling system? Just a thought...

Good luck w/ the design - hope it works well for you.

[Hinshaw]

Why would you need 2 radiators? Are they both fairly small?

[polish dude]

one is oversized radiator for the engine and the second one is a small radiator right before the turbo. i really want to cool the shit out of my 3sgte.
the big radiator is aluminum two row from a for a v8 mustang and the second one is a motorcicle radiator also aluminum.

[RacerX11]

What are you cooling with the motorcycle rad? The coolant going to the turbo?

[jvb6806]

are you over heating? i guess i don't' see why this is necessary. the turbo is still going to have 1000+ degree temps being pumped through it and will get hot there is no avoiding it. if i were to add anything it would be an oil cooler.

[2ks4 : Jason]

Maybe an oil cooler. But 2 radiators is a terrible idea. There are plenty of 500 plus hp cars that can run on a stock radiator. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish here besides more of a headache for yourself. I have 1,000.00 bucks that says this idea will not help at all.

[Midship_Express]

Maybe an oil cooler. But 2 radiators is a terrible idea. There are plenty of 500 plus hp cars that can run on a stock radiator.

I can think of one car right now that has 12.

[jvb6806]

I can think of one car right now that has 12.

i don't think his mustang is a W16 quad turbo.

[dnace]

i don't think his mustang is a W16 quad turbo.

lol

I go with everyone else unless cooling is an issue with an aluminum one alon, it probably wouldn't warrant the upgrade. Invest in bigger intercoolarz

[polish dude]

ok i know my car would run just fine on one radiator but overheating is what killed my old turbo and the engine, ( there was a flaw in the cooling system ) i will not let this happened again. i want it to be as relable as possible and i want it be be unique.

yes the small radiator is placed right before the turbo.

[polish dude]

also. at some point in the past i said how it's better to buy a new turbo, spent a little extra money and know that it'll be good. yeah about that. i paid $800 for turbonetics and it went bad after running the car for half an hour. sent it back to turbonetics and they didn't admit it was their fault but they fixed it for free, paid for shipping, cleaned it out, and sent it back to me with out any explanition. after looking at it i found out what happened. they left something clogging the oil pessage. the bearing didn't get any oil to it.

[digitalseance]

that'll do it! lol

Glad they fixed it for free though.

[Compressor Surge]

Maybe you need a big ass oil cooler. The oil cools the turbo just as much as the coolant does.

[polish dude]

i do have an oil cooler build in to the radiator. hopefully i'm picking up an engine for it next week in chicago. we'll see how the compression test will go.

[2ks4 : Jason]

This isn't going to work. Try a better oil cooler and kick ass intercoolers.

Maybe you need to flush your system first.

[marty]

The oil cools the turbo just as much as the coolant does.

if not moreso! imo, keeping the oil happy is more important.

get a good quality 'racing radiator' and a good oil cooler. this dual radiator business is probably a waste of time and money.

[badbu68]

Keep the motorcycle radiator for an a2w setup. Or just forget about an intercooler and run e85.

[2ks4 : Jason]

Keep the motorcycle radiator for an a2w setup. Or just forget about an intercooler and run e85.

forget about a intercooler? Ah, nothing like heatsoaked intercoolers and EXTREMELY high iat's. I can't imagine how terrible the boost with work with no intercooler.

[Midship_Express]

Perhaps he could run a setup similar to some oil coolers where as when the temp goes up it allows more coolant to enter but when the temps are down less coolant enters the seconded rad.

I wouldn't mount it right before the turbo though. Perhaps it would do better as a side mount to simplify the system and the hoses. It could be in line with a temp/pressure switch to activate the valve for the second rad.

[badbu68]

forget about a intercooler? Ah, nothing like heatsoaked intercoolers and EXTREMELY high iat's. I can't imagine how terrible the boost with work with no intercooler.

You don't realize how well e85 cools the intake charge.

[Compressor Surge]

Latent heat of vaporization FTW.

[2ks4 : Jason]

You don't realize how well e85 cools the intake charge.

Explain this to me better. The IAT's are coming from outside of the car. I don't understand how this would work.

[marty]

fuel is injected before the intake valve and has some time to mix with the incoming charge air. the hot charge air vaporizes some of the fuel and in the process, cools down. in the case of e85, ethanol vaporizes readily and we can take advantage of it's favorable latent heat of vaporization to cool the charge air more than with normal gasoline. also, because stoich with e85 is at a lower AFR than gasoline, there is more fuel present to be vaporized.

[Compressor Surge]

Explain this to me better. The IAT's are coming from outside of the car. I don't understand how this would work.

To expand on what marty said....
The phaze change of the liquid fuel to vapor is endothermic, meaning it requires consumes some of the heat energy from the intake air charge to change state of the fuel.

It is essentially the same as a methanol injection setup, as far as "chemical intercooling".

[dnace]

technical answers ftw! good descriptions though

[2ks4 : Jason]

Thank Marty and Com Surge. There are a couple of s4's that I just searced for running E85. None of them have logged their cars so i am not for sure on the power difference.

Polish,

You need to stick with the basics. Oil cooler, intercooler and radiator. I think you have a terrible idea that is going to give you a lot more problems.

[my97gtp]

Yes E85 cools better but its just dumb not to run an intercooler on any boosted setup unless at very very low psi. Im running an a/w intercooler right before the intake passages even tho its not hooked up right now my car sat for about 20 minutes after a easy drive with no boost and my gutted supercharger case and throttlebody were still very hot to the touch so i would start worrying about melting things pre injectors. E85 also burns much cooler than regular pump gas when it enters the cylinder. Its btu rating is very close to alot of middle range race gas's.

[marty]

Yes E85 cools better but its just dumb not to run an intercooler on any boosted setup unless at very very low psi. Im running an a/w intercooler right before the intake passages even tho its not hooked up right now my car sat for about 20 minutes after a easy drive with no boost and my gutted supercharger case and throttlebody were still very hot to the touch so i would start worrying about melting things pre injectors. E85 also burns much cooler than regular pump gas when it enters the cylinder. Its btu rating is very close to alot of middle range race gas's.

chemical charge cooling can bring IATs to well below ambient. no A/A intercooler can do that, and unless you're filling your a/w setup with ice neither can an a/w setup.

touching things in your engine compartment is not a terribly reliable indicator of IAT because there are a lot of factors which can affect the temperatures underhood. engine heat, radiator heat and airflow through the engine bay can all affect the temperature of the things you touch.

btu rating? what btu rating? the heating value? gasoline has a higher heating value than ethanol - ~18,600btu/lb vs ~11,500btu/lb

[my97gtp]

chemical charge cooling can bring IATs to well below ambient. no A/A intercooler can do that, and unless you're filling your a/w setup with ice neither can an a/w setup.

touching things in your engine compartment is not a terribly reliable indicator of IAT because there are a lot of factors which can affect the temperatures underhood. engine heat, radiator heat and airflow through the engine bay can all affect the temperature of the things you touch.

btu rating? what btu rating? the heating value? gasoline has a higher heating value than ethanol - ~18,600btu/lb vs ~11,500btu/lb

Yes i realize touching is not a perfect indicator but it does help. I know some of the heat will be coming from the lim. Depending on where you injectors spray also determines the cooling by the amount of time the fuel has to mix with the air. And im am positive running just E85 and no ic will never bring temps below ambient unless your running almost 0 boost or spraying so much fuel to cool that you loose power. I could see E85 when combined with a very efficient intercooler being either a/w or a/a bring them down that low. And what i was saying for the btu part is that E85 burns at near the temp of middle range pump gas's. Its been a while since i talked about btu so i could have the terminology messed up.